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Geff Fischer

Does Anything Around Here Work?

Geff Fischer
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MD
MD
3/26/2012 10:09:45 PM
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Blogger
Re: the learning curve of EMI
Thanks Raju. So, there's one example of probe "calibration". 

I'll tell you what needs to be sent out for calibration! Alligator clip jumper leads! They're always failing. Though it's usually pretty obvious when they do ;-)

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Raju Khubchandani
Raju Khubchandani
3/26/2012 7:11:49 PM
User Rank
Mayor
Re: the learning curve of EMI
Michael, I did some more search about calibrating passive probes. Many oscilloscope user manuals use the terms, probe calibration and compensation confusingly, if not interchangeably.

Yes, it is good practice to compensate the probe each time it is used. And probe compensation for channel1 is not necessarily valid for channnel2 because the input capacitance of the 2 channels could be different.

Agilent offers a passive probe calibration procedure for some of their passive probes, where they essentially verify that the 10X/100X attenuation is within tolerance specs. They recommend this to be calibrated (basically verified)once every year. Here is the link to the Probe manual. http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/redirector.jspx?action=ref&cname=AGILENT_EDITORIAL&ckey=1740733&lc=eng&cc=CA&nfr=-34025.0.00

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MD
MD
3/26/2012 10:35:11 AM
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Re: the learning curve of EMI
I have seen 10x probes with internal adjustments, presumably fine tweaks to the frequency/pulse response, and not related to the scope's input characteristics. I don't know if they are ever part of a cal routine.

Compensation is something the user needs to be checking each time a probe is plugged into a scope. Generally, cal labs expressly do not want your probes if they're calibrating your scope.

Maybe my probe calibration thought was a touch of hyperbole. Maybe not. Checking probe performance would have some value, after the cable has been stepped on a few times, etc.

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Raju Khubchandani
Raju Khubchandani
3/26/2012 1:18:22 AM
User Rank
Mayor
Re: the learning curve of EMI
About Calibrating a passive probe by the calibration house, here is what I believe they do.

They first calibrate your scope. They then use your calibrated scope's feature to produce a calibration pulse (most scopes have this feature), and ensure that the waveform is flat, ie it does not have any overshoots or undershoots. If it did, they would then adjust the compensation capacitor with a non-magnetic screwdriver, to make the wavform a flat rectangular waveform. These compensation capacitors are built-in in the passive probes. I have seen the non-magnetic screwdriver included as one of the accesories with the scope/probe. They would need to repeat this for all channels of your scope. This is done for the particular scope for which the probe is to be used, since the probe is being matched to the scope channels input capacitance and resistance.

Michael, are you referring to 1X passive probes not requiring any calibration? I am referring to 1X/10X passive probes that I have mostly used. Or, are you saying that once the scope is calibrated, the users can themselves calibrate the probe? Scope manufacturer's mention that the probe should be re-calibrated (re-compensated), every time the probe tip is changed.

As a safeguard against us engineers/users not compensating the passive probes, these calibration houses add value by at least compensating the passive probes.

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Glen Chenier
Glen Chenier
3/24/2012 6:54:51 PM
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Re: the learning curve of EMI
Scope_Master_G - did they not also require "Do Not Eat" labels on the markers?  I mean, really, someone could dab a red marker on a hotdog thinking it's ketchup...

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Scope_Master_G
Scope_Master_G
3/24/2012 6:29:37 PM
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Re: the learning curve of EMI
Calibrating passive probes sounds like something a company I used to work for would do.  They required all dry erase markers to be stamped with a hazard warning sticker and MSDS label.  Every dry erase board had to have the MSDS's attached to them!!!

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Glen Chenier
Glen Chenier
3/24/2012 5:45:01 PM
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Blogger
Re: the learning curve of EMI
When I was still a young lad working at Heathkit some lab sent in a scope calibrator for repair/check/whatever?  I thought it very strange, but the boss explained that since the lab was a government entity all equipment had to be calibrated/checked annually.

Apparently checking the scope calibrator against one of their recently-calibrated scopes was beyond the capacity of government legal beagles.

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MD
MD
3/24/2012 12:55:37 PM
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Blogger
Re: the learning curve of EMI
I'm sure I've seen the occasional passive scope probe be sent out for cal. I assume the process involves carefully removing the old sticker and replacing it with a new one. 

The cal lab isn't likely to tell you that something you've sent them doesn't really need calibration ;-)

Or maybe it's more a performance check thing...?

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MD
MD
3/24/2012 12:48:11 PM
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Blogger
Re: the learning curve of EMI
I'm all for accurate gear! But, a calibrated meter could be out for 364 days if it develops a fault right after cal! I think we always have to be on guard for faulty instruments, and do sanity/cross-checks whenever we're working on something critical, or we're seeing unexpected results.

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Clairvoyant
Clairvoyant
3/24/2012 11:07:27 AM
User Rank
Sheriff
Re: the learning curve of EMI
Calibration on equipment can certainly be frustrating at times. The cal process has started to get better at the company I work for, but there are still items that get calibrated that I don't even see the sense of having it done on. This costs more money and limits the number of pieces of equipment available for use.

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